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Lord Chancellor's avatar

Taking the median vs the mean to measure wealth is correct because the wealth of the US elite is so astronomical. Not to mention, on the other end, there are too many medical bankruptcies since the US is the only developed nation with no universal healthcare

Someone once said to me: “The United States is a 3rd world country dressed up as a 1st world country.”

susan cartwright's avatar

Exactly. Most people in the USA are broke. Unless you live there, you can't know how desperate almost everyone is!

The USA is a 3rd world nation with small pockets of the richest people you’ve ever seen. I know two well qualified teachers that do uber part time to make ends meet. I doubt they've even paid their student loans.

The poor are "lazy" but they work 2 or 3 jobs! They can't make ends meet much less get ahead.

ChatterX's avatar

The people with 99 donuts convinced the people with 1 donut that the people with 0 donuts are the greedy ones trying to steal donuts

Ppl with six teeth support ppl with six yachts..

***

Why Do People Defend Billionaires/Oligarchs?

youtube.com/watch?v=HuliwwbI3p4

Michiel Koen's avatar

Switzerland, the most prosperous country in the world, is a third world country ... what's wrong with Switzerland ?!?

ChatterX's avatar

"The wealth that's extracted from Imperialism goes into the coffers of the select few, whereas the costs of empire are paid out of the common treasure of the people."

The Custodian ✊✊🏻✊🏽✊🏿🍉💪🏽's avatar

The “Civilized” Barbarian

​The ancient world recognized the barbarian by his lawlessness and his raw, unrefined brutality. The modern West, however, has perfected a far more sinister specimen: the tech-driven, institutional barbarian. This is the actor who sits in a pristine television studio or an air-conditioned legislative office, speaks fluent human-rights jargon, and then signs off on the weapons, the funding, and the diplomatic cover required to vaporize entire families in their homes.

​There is a distinct, chilling barbarism in looking at a child pulled from the rubble of a bombed apartment complex and asking for their political credentials before deciding whether to mourn them. G.K. Chesterton accurately diagnosed this form of intellectual rot when he observed:

‘The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone.’

​In the modern pro-life imagination, the virtue of protecting innocence has gone completely insane. It has been detached from reality, turned into a domestic political token to be traded for votes, while being utterly denied to the most vulnerable human beings on earth. They will fight to the point of fanaticism to protect a microscopic cell they cannot see, but will actively justify the blinding, burning, and crushing of a child they can see in high-definition on their phones every single day.

L O's avatar

Americans were never wealthy … better off than many others around the world but… we had the propagandized illusion that we were all “wealthy”… many Americans still believe other people around the world live in mud huts while more and more Americans are living in tents

susan cartwright's avatar

China blew my mind. I was there just before covid. High speed trains, excellent and cheap transport infrastructure, solar and technology.

Hussein Hopper's avatar

Americans are brainwashed, compared to china , on any measure, economic, cultural or intellectual, they are living on a rubbish heap and dreaming it is a palace

Walt's avatar

Susan I agree. I was in Shanghai at a conference a month or so before Covid. I’m a birder so I traveled a fair bit outside the city. China is at least a decade and possibly two ahead of the US. High speed rail, electrification of the logistics hubs, overall infrastructure improvements, I could go on.

Lance Khrome's avatar

The only saving grace for US "healthcare" is hitting 65 yoa and receiving Medicare...otherwise it's a disaster area.

Falsificationism's avatar

Using medians is also flawed in the same direction. A better metric is to use MODAL wealth, broken up into deciles. This reveals that the bottom 10-20% (depending on how you count) of Americans actually have a negative net worth. And it shows where most people actually are—revealing the true skew masked by median figures.

Tp's avatar

I mean, the “Modal” health care spending is also $0 so maybe it’s not strictly better to use for insights lol

JohnOnKaui's avatar

So, where's the link?

There are plenty of sites with graphs that show the bottom 50% of Americans own nothing. I haven't seen any showing "negative net worth".

What I find "just weird" is how "wealthy" I am compared to other Americans and yet I'm still concerned I'll run out of money in retirement.

I'm not saying anything other than I worry about it. Whether or not my worry is justified, I can't say.

Falsificationism's avatar

Dozens of papers address this topic, but the most useful are either very recent (published in 2026) or pre-COVID-era. One challenge is capturing debt data from sources that most analyses don't typically include, such as BNPL (buy-now-pay-later) companies and other nonbank lenders.

To get you started, I'd point to this paper:

Pfeffer FT, Dvir-Djerassi A. The U.S. Wealth Distribution: Off the Charts. Socius. 2022 Jan-Dec;8:10.1177/23780231221143957. doi: 10.1177/23780231221143957. Epub 2022 Dec 15. PMID: 36873281; PMCID: PMC9983502.

The graph scales total wealth data, showing that the wealth of the bottom 27% is nearly invisible (i.e., at least net zero), and we can assume that there's always at least some level of revolving credit being used, especially at the lower end. This bottom quarter typically has about enough cash in their bank accounts to cover their expenses, but no more; student loan debt balances put their net worth in the negative, sometimes by thousands compared to their checking/saving account balances. And again, if we assume BNPL debt and other debts, it's really not a great picture, but a full accounting with a chart showing exactly how far in the negative people might be is difficult.

Hope that helps.

JohnOnKaui's avatar

For those who don't want to follow the reference above, here's the abstract for the paper: The U.S. Wealth Distribution: Off the Charts

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/23780231221143957

Do follow the link to GitHub where the each percentile; 1-99, is listed in an interactive graph.

Be sure to click on the "show Forbes 400 wealth" button and then I dare you to not say "Oh My God". Now the criminality and immorality of the Anglo-American Oligarchy should be obvious.

Sophia's avatar

Honestly, I feel so bad for the working class in America. People not having access to healthcare, education, housing, or decent food. Whilst being told from birth they live in 'land of the free' and that they can all be rich if they just work hard enough.

JohnOnKaui's avatar

Can we acknowledge now that Obamacare was a scam.

Let me repeat that:

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

Obamacare was a scam.

WTTW's avatar

3rd world with technology

Passive House Whisperer's avatar

I never miss what Ben Norton has to share. He is one of the few. Honestly

Ahenobarbus's avatar

For the title alone, I thank you, Ben.

This class blind myth must be dispelled before any new revolutionary unity between American workers and workers internationally can forged.

Alice's avatar

Ben Norton, brilliant. Sharing. Saving.

RedL666's avatar

Richard Wolff would give you an A

Hussein Hopper's avatar

Far more coherent than Richard Wolff, something to do with humility perhaps

Nana Baakan Agyiriwah's avatar

This man is a great teacher. I highly respect his ability to make complex concepts easier to understand without sounding condescending to those of us who just don't get it. I remember studying economics in college, it simply went over my head because it did not make sense to me in the real world. I literally bombed the course. But he makes it make sense. I'm not too sure if I could explain as succinctly as he does, but can definitely wrap my brain around how ill-advised we are about the so-called "richest" country in the world. Thanks, Ben.

Jack's avatar

More sane measures are (per capita) homelessness, food insecurity, weekly hours worked, child poverty, deaths of despair.

Ramiz Azadaliyev's avatar

Without adjusting for PPP and available disposable income, or debt, median is also meaningless.

PD Payne's avatar

Any one with basic economics can see this is a K shaped economy. The only people benefiting are the wealthy while the rest of are are sitting on stagnate wages and inflation.

JohnOnKaui's avatar

What is your definition of "Wealthy"?

Is someone with $5M in the bank "Wealthy"? Do you see them living that much differently than you?

Giorgio Priori's avatar

It is interesting to note that when analyzing financial data to invest (revenues, EBITDA, etc) analysts use median, instead when analyzing us economy against other country they use averages...

Hussein Hopper's avatar

I live in Australia. I like most Australians like to complain. In terms of our economic condition, it seems we indeed the “lucky country”. This seems to be based on our vast land and resources and relatively small population. Our various governments are totally useless and have been for decades. So it seems the governing class has little impact on the prosperity of its people , in this case at least.

Great article, demythologises economics , you will get kicked out of the club for that